During the week I met with another contributor to discuss ideas for an upcoming discussion on women’s issues; with such an open topic for discussion, we naturally began to speculate on what other people would want to discuss. One of the first things I expect when I imagine the average person discussing “women’s issues” is the abortion debate. However, I have to admit, I really don’t like having discussions about abortions. While I can’t stand the feeling that I’m repeating the same arguments over and over again, it isn’t that which makes me hesitant. I do feel strongly that women have a right to choose, but I feel like I don’t belong in the abortion debate.
Maybe this is more indicative of how I see the issue, but it seems like nonsense for me to try and voice an opinion one way or another. In the first place, child birth is an experience I will never have, at least not in the way a woman does. At best, I can never be more than a spectator. I know this seems to only harken back to the “it’s a woman’s body” claim that pro-life advocates would quickly shoot down, but I’m not trying to make any claims about whether or not a fetus has rights. In this instance, I only want to point out that it is an experience men cannot experience, and so I don’t see why, in the first place, it is a discussion I would try to be involved in.
At the same time, I do think men can support the pro-choice movement. I’m just not so sure where I fit into the actual discussion, if I do at all, as a man. Should I assume the role of a cheerleader for whatever side I take? While I can certainly make arguments one way or another, is there a reason for me to be making the arguments in place of a woman; it seems almost silly to have a man arguing for a woman’s right to choose, when there could be a woman making those arguments, having the knowledge that comes from experiencing pregnancy or the real possibility of becoming pregnant.
I think right now I’ll still keep arguing, but I can’t help wondering if I really should. This idea seems to depend on me thinking of abortion as an issue for a woman and her doctor, but I think it can also hold weight as an argument for why abortion should only be a question for a woman and her doctor. If men, cannot experience childbirth at all, and no woman can experience another woman’s pregnancy, then neither men nor women have any reason to be involved in a woman’s individual pregnancy. The act of an abortion is a singular action; any characterization of abortion as a single, movement in which all women who receive abortions are participants gives validity to the claims like “abortion is genocide.” But abortion isn’t genocide, it’s a choice made by a woman.
So, again, should men be involved in the abortion debate?
ShoutOut! James Madison University 
I can’t speak for the pro-choice side, but pro-lifers gladly accept the support and input of men both in discussions and in activism. If the fetus is actually a person, then it’s the father’s child as much as the mother’s. My sister-in-law and her husband both say things like, “I can’t wait to meet this baby!” They see the fetus as a human and a person, and as such it is equally valuable to both of them even though it is still inside her womb. Another friend-of-a-friend has considered himself pro-choice for years, but when his girlfriend had an abortion despite his requests not to, he found himself facing powerful sorrow and regret he couldn’t name. Our mutual friend was the one who told him what he was feeling–he was grieving the death of his child.
On the other hand, if the fetus is just part of the woman’s body, it can easily be argued that men have no place telling her what to do with it.
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Like I said Kelsey, I’m not really interested in arguing over whether or not a fetus is a person; aside from making the same arguments over and over, many of which you’ve no doubt heard, it just doesn’t seem important. Men don’t carry children, we don’t deal with the consequences of pregnancy. Men are a bystander, regardless of their emotional attachment to the child in question. The idea of any person deciding what surgery another person can or can’t have is unbearably invasive. What you described above demonstrates the emotional attachment that a person develops for a child. The emotional attachment your friend of a friend felt doesn’t have any relevance to the status of a fetus. Being excited at the prospect of a woman’s egg potentially becoming a baby doesn’t make the egg a baby. But here I am doing what I don’t want to do, so I’ll stop now. There are a good deal of places, many of which you may already have found, to discuss the ideas you’re bringing up, but I’d rather not rehash these arguments here as well.
Also, please keep in mind I’m not saying men can’t provide support, just that I don’t see what gives men the right to be involved in the final decision.
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I agree completely that the feelings of adults have no influence on the status of the fetus; I mentioned those stories only to illustrate that men are in fact invested in the abortion debate. As far as the fetus itself, science clearly declares that it is a distinct human organism (MRI images from conception to birth: http://blog.ted.com/2011/11/14/conception-to-birth-visualized-alexander-tsiaras-on-ted-com/ Which of these images marks the point at which the fetus ceases to be part of its mother’s body and becomes its own organism?). If that is true, and abortion really is the killing of a human being, then every human, even men, should get to have a say.
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I think that you said yourself that “science clearly declares that it is a distinct human organism,” and not a distinct human being, shows that there is clear ambiguity on the question. However, I don’t consider a handful of cells any more a human than I consider my own sperm a human being. However, these are the typical sort of arguments that I already said I don’t really have any desire to be involved in.
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I can’t vouch for the statistic, but the Elliot Institute believes that as many as 64% of abortions are coerced. It doesn’t take a genius to know who is doing the coercing: irresponsible and predatory men. They will frequently threaten the woman with abandonment if she will not abort their child. Some “choice.” Regardless of what we may believe about abortion, we should at least agree that it is wrong for an man to pressure a woman to abort. Pro-life men are dedicated to delivering that message to other men, who need to take responsibility for their actions.
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I was very tempted to not let this comment up. While I like the point you make about coercion, I don’t like the subtle moral attack at the pro-choice side. While you may not have meant anything by, “Pro-life men are dedicated to delivering that message to other men, who need to take responsibility for their actions,” the implication seems to be that pro-choice advocates are ok with coerced abortions, which is hardly the case. I can’t imagine that the men coercing women into getting abortions are the kind of men who are active members of the pro-choice movement. Coercion one way or the other is wrong, and is complete opposition to what the pro-choice movement wants. This only perpetuates the false stereotype that pro-choice people want people to have abortions.
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One thing I would like to point out that you fail to mention Fletcher, is the number of men that coerce women NOT to have abortions. While it is very wrong for a man to coerce a woman into having an abortion it is equally wrong for a man to coerce a woman into not having one. Either way the woman’s choice is being taken away from her. I have seen how cruel these pro-life men who are supposedly “dedicated to delivering that message to other men, who need to take responsibility for their actions” can be. From fathers threatening to kick their daughters out to boyfriends threatening to leave them or even file a law suit. The amount of women who choose to have an abortion and have to deal with degrading remarks from their pro-life parents or partner is disgusting and a side that I think you need to consider as well. These men that coerce they’re daughters, girlfriends, and wives into not having abortions regardless of what the woman wants are just as bad as the ones coercing them to have abortions. Overall men should just stay out of the decision all together. Men are not the ones carrying a fetus for 9 months, men are not the ones going through hours of painful labor that can leave a woman wrecked physically and emotionally. Until men start experiencing this I think they need to stick to being a supportive force no matter what the woman’s choice is and leave the overall decision to her. It’s her body and her choice.
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It is true, that as a man, you most likely cannot have the same experience of pregnancy as a women. But life, as everything, is ultimately subjectively. We all will never have the same experience of anything. I think that when a women is pregnant, there is a necessary dialogue that should occur between the man, the woman, and her doctor, regardless of whether the pregnancy will be terminated or not. I think this discussion does not belong in politics at all, its (like you said) a personal and singular decision. Not a national policy, particularly under a genocidal mantra. I mean, as most of us have concluded, politicization of genocide, abortion, and these types of issues is wrong.
But, I do not think that the male agenda in the political sphere has any right to label women as Nazi’s for having abortions, just as women in the political sphere should have no right saying that either.
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This is actually something we’ve been discussing a lot at Dukes for Choice lately. My thoughts are that while it’s incredibly important to have men as allies in the fight for reproductive justice, ultimately women must make these decisions themselves. The idea that men should have an equal part in the decision-making process about abortion bothers me, because in the long run it really doesn’t affect them. I have male friends whose girlfriends have had abortions and while they were included in the decision making process, they ultimately believed that it really wasn’t their decision. In terms of the politics surrounding abortion, I also think that women should ultimately be the ones to win the fight for justice. Both Malcolm X and Steve Biko wrote extensively on the idea that while allies are important, the oppressed group must liberate themselves, otherwise they are still being oppressed. Granted, they were writing about the Civil Rights Movement and apartheid, but I think it applies to women’s rights as well.
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Here here commentators! And, anncoulpable, brilliant as always!
To address the issue though on that feminism is a synonym for abortion– yeah, not so much… It’s the same incorrectness when one refers to family planning only concerns abortion. Again, not true. It unnerves me when persons simplify women’s issues to abortion. Of course we can all agree that the issue of abortion, women owning and controlling their own bodies, is of great concern. However, there are other issues floating about concerning women, issues which we could also speak on the controlling of women’s bodies such as sexual harassment, pornography, and prostitution. Yet, it always comes back to abortion. I believe its because abortion ‘comes down to’ 2 sides. A pretty ‘easy’ set up, you’re either on this side or that side of the debate. Similar to Democrats and Republicans debating over taxes. Whereas, and the difference between abortion and other issues (e.g. sexual harassment, prostitution, and pornography) there are multiple sides to these arguments. Its not as ‘simple’ when debating these issues. \
I just get tired of feminism being only about abortion, because there is so many other things going on concerning female equality….
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I’m glad my sentiments aren’t as crazy as I thought people might think. The comment about Malcolm X seems particularly fitting, and sums up how I feel about the whole discussion. It’s why I’ve mostly kept myself out of a lot of the dialogue on abortion. I’d only be repeating what others have already said, and the women that have said it understand what they’re saying better than I think I ever could. It’s hard to full grasp the seriousness of an issue I can only be a bystander for. I guess I’m also glad that others seems happy to let me take on the role of supporter.
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